Forty thousand. That was the number that made a room full of American cops do a double take. In episode 49 of Palavrão Tático, the hosts described what it was like to introduce the São Paulo Civil Police to colleagues in the Los Angeles area, when a class from São Paulo's Senior Police Course (Curso Superior de Polícia) visited the city: "It's an agency of 40,000 investigators." The largest police agency in the United States, the New York Police Department, has somewhere between 33,000 and 35,000 uniformed officers. "And that's just one state." When they heard that São Paulo's Military Police is even bigger, the reaction was: "That's an army!"

But the number comes with an asterisk — and delegado Maurício de Tomasi, the episode's guest, explained what it is.

40,000 on paper, 23,000 on the street

According to the guest, if every position were filled, the São Paulo Civil Police would have about 40,000 to 41,000 officers. Today it has 23,000 to 24,000. "We work with about 60% of full staffing." The figure lines up with what the São Paulo State Union of Police Delegados (Sindpesp) has been reporting: in January 2025, the union counted about 15,000 vacant positions — including nearly 3,500 investigator slots, about 2,400 clerk (escrivão) slots and more than 770 delegado slots. The state government has been appointing successful candidates in large batches, but, according to the guest, hiring doesn't keep pace with attrition. "We hire a lot of people and we still can't cover the ones who are leaving."

The exam-chaser who walks away

The hosts brought up something they had already heard from other guests: the concurseiro — the professional exam-chaser — who passes, takes the job, gets all the training and leaves at the first better exam that comes along. In the United States, they pointed out, the cost of training a police officer runs in the ballpark of $150,000, paid by taxpayers. The guest said that in São Paulo the investment likely reaches about R$150,000 per officer, "easy."

And leaving is easy, he explained. With so much information out there, a candidate can put together a study cycle that qualifies them to sit for exams anywhere in Brazil. They come to São Paulo, pass, go through the academy. "Then an exam opens back in their home state, the guy's already a pro at testing, he passes and goes back." At the federal level, he said, there was a time when anyone who left the Federal Police for another position had to reimburse the cost of their training; he doesn't know if that rule still stands. The São Paulo Civil Police has no such rule.

"I pay Los Angeles prices in reais"

The second reason is money. In a country of 27 federative units, the São Paulo Civil Police salary, according to the guest, is far from the top of the list — and the cost of living in the state capital is among the highest in Brazil. "I pay Los Angeles prices in reais." The result: the officer from another state goes back home, where they earn more and spend half as much.

Fixing that by region isn't simple. The hosts said the topic came up during the Senior Police Course visit itself: because raises are negotiated by position and by agency, an investigator in Greater São Paulo, where life is expensive, earns the same as one in a small inland city, where it's much cheaper. If the gap swings too far the other way, the capital empties out: officers would rather work inland, where in theory there's less work and the paycheck goes further.

Same problem, in dollars

In California, the hosts said, the pain is the same. Raises are also negotiated agency by agency, and comparing one department's pay with another's is misleading if you don't factor in each place's cost of living. The example they gave was San Francisco, which has put recruiting ads all over the region with sky-high salaries — but where, they said, a two-bedroom apartment costs $6,000 a month. The high salary there is simply the price of getting someone in the door.

São Paulo and California: similar in size

The comparison isn't random. The state of São Paulo has about 46 million residents, according to estimates from IBGE (Brazil's national statistics institute); California has about 39 million, per the U.S. Census. The hosts estimate there are around 80,000 police officers across the entire state of California, spread over hundreds of agencies — city police departments, county sheriff's departments, the California Highway Patrol. In São Paulo, the two state police forces alone add up to well more than that.

Even so, the structures line up. The Civil Police's regional divisions in the interior of the state, the DEINTERs, look a lot like an American county: a group of municipalities served by the same structure. And a single agency that sends its officers to multiple municipalities resembles the model of a sheriff's department that serves cities by contract. "It's very rare to find an agency dealing with the same problems, proportionally speaking, at the same size," the hosts said, summing up what they heard from the visitors. That's what brought the two sides together.

What the two of them think about it

In the episode, Eliel Teixeira and Edwin Wu talk about the São Paulo Senior Police Course class's visit to Los Angeles, the cost of training a police officer, and how pay and cost of living weigh on recruiting in California. The full conversation is in the episode.

Sources and verification

São Paulo State Union of Police Delegados (Sindpesp), survey of vacant positions in the São Paulo Civil Police (January 2025), as reported by specialized press. São Paulo State Government, appointments of candidates who passed the 2023 entrance exams. IBGE, state population estimates. U.S. Census Bureau, California population estimates. NYPD, uniformed headcount. São Paulo State Complementary Law 207/1979. The authorized and active headcount figures, the training cost and the salary and rent figures cited are estimates from the episode's participants; official data vary depending on the date and methodology of each survey.

Who's talking here: Eliel Teixeira and Edwin Wu are active-duty police officers in the Los Angeles area, California — Brazilian-born, American citizens, with long careers in law enforcement. In this episode, produced in partnership with Criminal Cast, they host Maurício de Tomasi, a delegado with the São Paulo State Civil Police, a professor of criminology and criminal procedure and host of Criminal Cast.

Note: what's described here about American policing applies to California rules — and, in several points, to each host's specific department. Rules change in other U.S. states. What's described about Brazil applies to the São Paulo Civil Police; each Brazilian police force has its own organic law, exam notices and internal rules.